Understanding the impact of training is a top priority for learning leaders — but knowing where to start with learning analytics can be challenging. From identifying the right metrics to connecting data back to business goals, effective measurement is key to building a more strategic L&D function.
In this episode of The Business of Learning, we spoke with Brandy Ford, CPTM, assistant vice president of manager strategy, analytics and technology at FM, to discuss how L&D professionals can develop foundational analytics skills and demonstrate real business impact.
Tune in now to hear insights on:
- Where to begin when measuring training effectiveness
- Key learning metrics to track, and how to align them with business key performance indicators (KPIs)
- Practical tips for engaging stakeholders in defining success
More Resources:
View the Measuring the Impact of L&D certificate brochure to see how this course can help you gain the frameworks for effective storytelling with data.
The transcript for this episode follows:
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Sarah Gallo: Hi, and welcome back to The Business of Learning. I’m Sarah Gallo, a senior editor here at Training Industry.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz : And I’m Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, editor in chief. Today’s L&D leaders are under more pressure than ever to show that training is driving real business outcomes. That’s where learning analytics come in. By tracking the right metrics and connecting them to business results, L&D can prove its impact and gain a seat at the table. In this episode of The Business of Learning, we’re exploring foundational learning analytics, and we hope you’ll leave with best practices that you can apply back on the job. We’re joined by Brandy Ford, a Certified Professional in Training Management, and assistant vice president of manager strategy, analytics and technology at FM. Brandy, thank you for joining us today.
Brandy Ford: Thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited.
Sarah Gallo: I am excited too. It’s really a timely conversation. I mean, it’s always important to show business impact, but especially during times of economic uncertainty. So definitely a timely conversation. And to really kick us off, Brandy, can you share a little bit about your own experience with learning analytics and how you’ve approached measuring the impact of training throughout your own career?
Brandy Ford: Sure. So this is a topic that I love so very much. I probably geek out more than most individuals, and it is my happy spot. I have been in a training or development for about 22 years, almost very long time. ButI think where we are with the analytics portion of how we look at measurement, how we look at reporting. What speaks the value story to the executive suite and how, how we tell our value story and learning. I think those things are becoming so much more prevalent than they were before. And it goes back to what you just said, Sarah, about just the economic shift and all the things that are happening in the world itself. How we as organizations are working toward how we position ourselves better with our clients. Right? And then from a learning standpoint, if we’re going to make this spend, what is the value of that bringing back to the business? So for me, my approach is, I look at starting with asking the business questions. What are we trying to accomplish? What are your greatest needs? What are you seeing that’s happening back in the operational side of everything that you need your people to be more prepared on? You know, as we look to the future of learning and we are really preparing our people for the future? What do those needs look like? The frameworks that I use are, yes, the Kirkpatrick [Model], I am certified in the ROI Institute methodology, of ROI. But when we look at those, how do we take those and how do we adapt and how do we mold them into what we need today? Are we looking for engagement? Are we in some of these organizations, are there people engaged with learning? I don’t have that problem in my organization because we are a learning organization and we spend a ton of money and resources and time in making sure that our people are well developed and trained. But are we looking at speed to competency that’s really big right now? And how quick are people getting up to speed in these roles? There’s a big shift because now we have this changing of the guard. So now you have these people that have been in roles for a very long time. They’re retiring, so we are getting more and more retirement classes and now the younger generation is coming in. And so can we get these people up to speed in what we need them to know and be able to do on a day to day? And then also from a retention standpoint, can people look at their organization and say, you know what? This organization is investing in me. They are doing things that’s helping me build for the future of my career. They’re going to put into me so that I can put out for them and it also impacts the business. So that’s kind of where my approach [comes from] and where I look at the basics of learning analytics.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Love that. As we know, learning analytics, improving the impact of training, is very challenging for L&D professionals and many professionals struggle to know where to even begin. I’d love to hear your thoughts on maybe some first steps that you would recommend when starting to measure training impact?
Brandy Ford: Sure, start small. We get all these things and so much comes at us very quickly and people are throwing things in the learning space. Can you do this? Can you get this done? We need a training for this. We need learning for this. This does not work. You know, all these things that we are struggling to juggle every single day, and analytics should not be one of those hard things. Start small, start simple. The first step, and I will always say this no matter where I go, the first step is what problem are you actually trying to solve for the business? Not that you assume, not that you think first things first is to go to the business. And really have those conversations of what are, what is the problem? You need learn, quote unquote learning to solve. And then from there, how are you starting to collect data supports that that is an actual problem. A lot of times, you know, people will come to me and say, well, Brandy, we have data all over the organization and some data I have access to and some data I don’t have access to. Well, if the business is able to. Firmly articulate what the problem is, we understand that learning could be a part of solutioning for problem. Now you need to work with those who have the gate. I call them the gatekeepers of the data because not always, because we don’t always have the data. In my world, there are 11 platforms that my team uses. I had to create the case to work with all those department heads, all those SVPs, to tell them why I needed the data and how the data was going to support solutioning for their problem. And then they were like, “Okay, we will release this data. We still have to put some parameters around this piece of the data or these elements, but we’ll give you that.” But again, it started small. And it started simple, because I knew that this was the problem. After having those conversations, and these were the data elements and points that I needed in order to be able to tell story of, I understand this is the actual problem. What can we do to mitigate that? And then what can we use down the road that will help us to determine if we were successful at mitigating that problem? So start small, start simple, and really ask the real question what problem you’re trying to solve.
Sarah Gallo: Such great tips there since it’s when we don’t start small, that we get overwhelmed typically, and then something gets put on the back burner and then no progress gets made. So I love kind of starting there.
Brandy Ford: It’ll get complicated. And then the C-suite’s shooting things down because, guess what? It doesn’t make sense to them. So if you can identify one to two measurements and get some baseline, and a lot of people don’t like the baseline, well, where do we start? We have to start somewhere. So let’s create the baseline and then we can create a comparison, and then we can go back around and see if it’s working or if it’s not working.
Sarah Gallo: Definitely. I’d love if you could share, kind of going off of that, what are some common training metrics that learning and development leaders should really start tracking?
Brandy Ford: So, I know, I know, I know, participation and completion. Everybody wants to do that, but that’s, not enough. To get like not enough on their own. You need, what are the satisfaction, confidence? That’s one thing that I learned in the last two years. My COO was like, “OK, Brandy, I got all of this.” Like, great, fine, give me all this. But I want to know if confidence is enhancing, I want to know if the learning is allowing people to be more confident in their decision making. More confident in being able to negotiate, more confident in their presence when they walk into the room of the C-suite in our client space and the client is like, oh, that’s my trusted advisor. I want to know those things. I want to know if people are able to apply the knowledge that they’re gaining. I want to know, did they learn? So yes, the basics of level one, two, three and four, or one, two [and] three especially, but in a Kirkpatrick Model. But also, can they apply? What they did on the job and some organizations — most can tie application to business impact because it directly applies to sales or reduction in the number of this, or increased in this matter. But there’s some organizations like ours where it doesn’t tie directly, but you can isolate the effectiveness of what people are able to apply and do to [the] everyday. Which in turn now it ties into those key result areas that we have in our organization. Everybody’s, they have OKRs, they have, you know, all these things that they look at. But also a business impact standpoint, reduction in errors. Is it faster sales cycles you’re looking for? Is it client satisfaction? We look at client satisfaction as well. Is it risk mitigation? What is the thing that you can tie back into the business impact? And I usually go off of three. Three areas, right? application and impact. And if you stick to, if you stick and focus on those things, those are where you’re going to pull those common metrics that you’re really trying to go after. Not because you have participation and completion rates, because those are good, especially if you’re in an organization where it’s hard to get people to do learning. But if you’re in a learning organization, nobody cares about, we know. Nobody cares. Like, okay, for me, I had a thousand people go through one program. Well, they have to go through their program. It’s not a choice. Right? But there are other organizations where they’re trying and they’re struggling to get people to participate. That might be a metrics for them, because now participation has been low and they’re trying to figure out what’s the strategy? Strategy to increase. But just don’t stay there. Stay on the path of did the learn and learn something? Was their overall experience great? And are they able to apply what they learned? Because that’s what’s going to make the business impact and I’ll leave it right there.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: I love that. I think you broke that down beautifully for everyone because, as you said, the metrics that you choose to follow are going to be unique to your organization. And so really dialing in and figuring out those needs of your business and picking the metrics that really matter to your business is most important. I’d love if you can kind of walk us through how to make sure that the metrics that we’re tracking actually connect back to business goals and KPIs. So do you have any or tips or anything to actually show stakeholders [that] training’s making an impact?
Brandy Ford: First question, if this works, will the business know? So that was, so I always start, and I tell people I had the awesome opportunity to work with someone a couple weeks ago after taking one of my sessions, learning analytics, and they were like, “Well, I just, if this works, how will the business know?” Because at the end of the day, what is the objective? And there might be several objectives, right? But what is the objective and how do we anchor everything in an organization’s KPIs back to what the, the learning was and is Because every learning has, it has a learning strategy. You have your objectives of how and why the curriculum is being delivered like it is. And that is part of it’s solving for that business problem. But if this works, how will the business know that it’s working? And that’s how, so instead of reporting X number of people trained, connected to x percent reduction in. Claims errors because I, I work in the industry or short, shorten time to market by two weeks. So how is this literally going to tie into the business or their revenue growth or their risk and reduction or client retention or employee engagement? When you start looking at what is the overall objective, that’s when you start anchoring and building out. So it’s actually starting with the end in mind. you back in to, because when I had to explain this to my organization, so they were like, “So Brandy, we have to start with the end.” Yes. Because what is the outcome you’re looking for? And then I back in everything on top of there. And when they saw it in that way, from a business standpoint, then they understood why I created the metrics that I created, right? And then why I created the goals and the targets that I did, because they generally aligned with how we speak the business language and the operations. And then everybody was like, done, approve. Let’s run it. And I told them what our key indicators were going to be. And I told them how we … what our targets industry says the target should be around here, but internally, what do we want our targets to be? Do we want to follow along and align with the industry of if it’s a 80, if it should be a 80% increase in. I don’t know, shorten time to market. If that’s, is that, what if that, what if that is what the industry is stating? Do we want to do that or do we want to push for 85 or do we want to meet it? And if we exceed it, we are like, boom. Even with the industry benchmark, we have exceeded this goal by excess of X, Y and Z. Businesspeople love numbers and if you can give them numbers and if you can put it into their business language, that’s how you’re going to ensure that your metrics connect to the business goals. And I think that is one part in the L&D space that we really … the business acumen … are we speaking the business’ language? We know learning language from backwards and sideways, but [the] business doesn’t understand our language, but can we speak our language in business terms and then get them and be able to paint the picture that way, and then get them on board to say, we can do these metrics and we can show you this. And it ties into the business goals by this. And I think that’s the greatest piece right there. Also the greatest challenge because now you’re in front and you’re like, is this connecting to the business at all?
Sarah Gallo: Definitely, kind of starting with that end goal in mind from the beginning, and it’s why that needs analysis step is so important, making sure that you’re actually designing and delivering training that meets a need versus thinking of that business need more as an afterthought, so keeping that kind of front of mind is so important.
Brandy Ford: And I think also, you know, we, we always talk about it. You know, Training Industry, you guys, everybody talks about the fact of not continuing to be order-takers, right? But are we asking the right questions even before we get to the analysis? And if we ask the right questions and if we understand the business, it goes back to asking the question what problem we’re trying to solve. I think we would benefit more and we’ll have a greater seat at the table than we have before. Other than people just throwing stuff at us and say, it’s training, it’s training. You know … and if we move into more of a consultative role, instead of just saying, okay, dumping on me, we’ll take it, we’ll do it. If we move into more of a consultative role, um, the trusted advisor of learning, then I think that will move the needle for us as well. So I just wanted to throw that in there.
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Sarah Gallo: Definitely. It sort of goes into my next question about really engaging stakeholders in this process. In your experience, what is the best way to engage stakeholders in defining the right success measures for a training program?
Brandy Ford: It’s all about questioning. So again, what problem are we trying to solve? What outcomes matter most to you? Okay, because again, here we are with outcomes and objectives, and then what would success look like in six months. If we were able to pull the data, what would success look like in six months if we did this? I think those are the questions that help shape and frame what we need to know in order to figure out what we need to build to get that outcome, and then one thing that’s important to me is how we involve the stakeholders very early for codefining the measures. It’s like building while getting the buy-in at the same time instead of like building it out and then say, “Hey, what do you think about this?” But we build it together and so we have that buy-in so we don’t get to the end of it. And then they say, this is not what we want it to begin with. But if we do it on the front end, I think, that’s the piece that makes the difference. And that’s the piece that made the difference for our organization, because I have a COO who didn’t sit back when they were appointed, did not sit back and wait for the stakeholders to come to us. They went to the stakeholders. They start asking the questions. They start asking what the need was, and it wasn’t the need coming to us. It was them collecting the need and really understanding. What are we trying to solve? What outcomes matter the most? And then what does success look like when and if we do this, then that start fizzling out some of the noise. This doesn’t work. It’s training. We need, you know, we need this, we need, but now it’s more of the strategic mindset and now we can put the strategies in place and the things that matter the most because again, do we have the resources? Do we have the capacity? Because we don’t have time to be doing all these things. But if, if we move into the more strategic approach about working and engaging our stakeholders quickly, and those basic three questions, then we’re able to chart out what the roadmap should look like for the need of the business as well.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Definitely, asking great questions is so important, and I love kind of what you shared there, going to the business and asking the questions and not expecting or waiting senior leaders to come to you. So it’s like collecting all the information and going to them with the problems.
Brandy Ford: Yeah, I think, even, in the leadership development space example, you’re trying, like there’s a need for a leadership program, another, a new program, right? Did we align with HR on succession plan goal? Like what if they’re doing succession planning and they’re putting the goals and objectives in there? How do we work with HR to ensure that this program is going to meet in the need that they have but you didn’t know that they needed? And if you don’t know it, if you’re not communicating one, HR has no idea that you’re developing this program, two vice versa, you don’t know that HR is like aligning to move and succession planning is going to like pivot into, you know, something different.
But once you work together, then you understand. Okay. HR is trying to do this. We’re trying to do this. How do we meet in the middle and we determine what the success metrics look like for us based on what the need is, what we’re trying to accomplish, what does success look like in six months. I think those are examples of how we partner with the business to ensure that we’re all, and nobody comes up. Because it happens all the time. Wait, you did what? I didn’t wait. I didn’t know that was happening. You know, I didn’t know that was happening. It was always, I didn’t know [it] was happening. You know, why were we not a part [of it]? And if we don’t just sit back and wait, I think that’s a big thing — we cannot sit back and wait. Not in this time right now. There there’s too much happening. The business is pivoting so much [and] so much transformation has taken place. There’s a lot of tech transformation. There’s a lot of business transformation. There’s a lot of strategy that’s been put in place and we all have to talk with each other, and learning’s no different. We can either sit and wait or we can go get the seat at the table.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: What advice do you have for L&D professionals who want to move beyond smile sheets and participation scores and really start demonstrating real business impact?
Brandy Ford: My favorite part, the smile sheet conversation. I think that we should move to behavior and results. So how are we moving the needle on behavior? What are we using to follow up on surveys 60, 90 days post-training? What questions are we asking? Are we putting, are we collecting manager observational assessments? Are we reassessing from a knowledge standpoint? The learners that were there, are we tracking what they’re able to actually do on their day-to-day, 60, 90, 100, 120 days afterwards, to really show the impact of what learning did for the individuals. Are we linking data to operational metrics? Where possible, again, are we able to look at and isolate those effective, the effectiveness? And from a goal standpoint, we want to make sure that people actually do something differently. And did it matter to the business? And those are the things, moving from smile sheets is really setting up. OK. Yeah, we loved the learner experience, but beyond that. What was the behavior that changed after the learning? Are are we doing knowledge assessments to understand [if] people learned anything while they were there? Then it is the pre- and post-training things. And I know people say, well, that takes a lot. Yes, it takes a lot, but the data becomes a lot for us to be able to use. And if you winna move past just having smile sheets, I mean, they’re good, but they don’t prove impact. And what the business is looking for is the value that learning is bus is bringing to the business. So look at those post, like those post training activities that you do, and also try to implement some of those pre-trainings, even if you only can do it for a pilot. So you can show like, if we did this on more programs, we will be able to have this data to support, you know, bringing this. Data, information to life, I think you will definitely move. They’ll be like, okay, well we we’re done with those types of things. Give us the meat and potatoes of what we really want. Thanks for the skeleton, but give us the meat and potatoes of this. And I think once you start, you’re able to link that data to those operational metrics. That’s where the big bang and the value like means more. And there’s so many ways to do that. There are intangible, intangible ways. There are monetary, non-monetary ways, but there, there are multiple ways, but really look at how you’re changing behaviors and results. I think those, those are the big things. And you don’t have … it doesn’t have to be this grand old thing. It can be something very small. Don’t think you have to put into … like all these things. It is literally a survey, because you know what the core competencies are for that role or for that job family, and being able to mark from a competency standpoint on a scale of one to five. Is this person able to do this? And the manager’s like “Yes, at a level three and they originally were at a level one.” Wow. They really were able to learn something. They took the skills and the knowledge that they gained from there, and now they’re able to put it into action. And now we have business impact. It’s a small things we don’t have to do a lot, but we can do something to get started. And my suggestion is to, our recommendation is to start small. One program. Just do one and see what you can get off of that. Do some integration work. Present your business case, and I think it will go a long way because it has, like I have done it before and it has gone a [long way].
Sarah Gallo: I love that. Well, we’ve covered so much ground today, Brandy, but before we wrap up, many of our listeners are new to L&D and maybe a little bit less experienced when it comes to learning analytics. What’s one simple action since we’ve been talking about starting small, that they can take to start building stronger measurement practices?
Brandy Ford: Very simple. Don’t try to overhaul everything. Start with something that has high visibility, and track beyond just completions. Again, just one program. Just ask to be able to pilot on one program. Don’t go in there saying [in] every program, “wWe’re going to do this and we’re going to implement pre and post…” Like, no, no, no, no. One program. Start very simple. Don’t try to overhaul everything. The reason I say that [is] because if you’re new or if this is something new to you, this is what’s going to build the confidence. It gives you a story to tell and it makes the case for how you’re going to scale your analytics. But if you can do it once and you can do it well and do it simple, that’s one thing I’m learning from my CLO. She’s like, Brandy, this is too complex. My CLO is new to learning, 40 something years in the organization, knows the organization frontwards and backwards. But when I speak the language and I get so excited and I’m ready to … and they’re like, wait, wait, wait. Can you just give me something like really, really small? And in my head I’m like, that is small. But to them, that is not small. To anyone who’s listening, [or] watching, don’t try to overhaul everything and start very small you want those quick wins because now that builds faith and that also builds your confidence, and then it allows you to stretch just a little bit more so you can scale those.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: I love that. On that note, thank you so much for speaking with us today, Brandy. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. How can our listeners get in touch with you if they like to reach out after the episode?
Brandy Ford: Sure. I am highly visible on LinkedIn. You can find me Brandy M. Ford, B-R-A-N-D-Y-M-F-O-R-D. If you send me a DM, I promise you I will reply. I will email you. Whatever you need. I’m here to help anyone. Anyone who knows me, please reach out if you have a question, if you want to bounce something off. If you don’t know where to start, I’m happy to help because there were those who helped me along the way and those who really lit a fire in all of my geek out over learning analytics. So yes, just please [reach out]. And I have resources, you know, if you need them, case studies, templates, whatever. I’m happy to share any of that and I’m so grateful to you both for allowing me to be a part of this episode so very much.
Sarah Gallo: Well, we appreciate you. For more resources on learning analytics, check out the episode description or visit the shownotes on our website at TrainingIndustry.com/Podcast. And don’t forget to rate and review us wherever you tune into the business of learning. Until next time.
