Change is inevitable, but the good news is that leading it successfully is a skill that can be learned.
In this episode of The Business of Learning — recorded live, in person at the 2025 Training Industry Conference & Expo (TICE) in celebration of Training Industry’s 20-year anniversary — we sat down with Dr. Michelle Rozen, a keynote speaker, author and expert on change management, to explore how learning leaders can support their organizations through disruption and help teams stay focused, motivated and resilient.
Tune in now for insights on:
- How to drive sustainable change across the organization
- Turning resistance into engagement
- Key mindset shifts for leaders navigating uncertainty
More Resources:
- [E-Book] L&D’s Role in Change Management
- [Article] Change Management Is a Learned Skill
- [Podcast] Episode 81: Leading Through Change — Developing Agile Leaders
Learn how CPTM can help you drive change in your organization. Download the brochure below:
The transcript for this episode follows:
Sarah Gallo: Welcome back to The Business of Learning. I’m Sarah Gallo here with my co-host Michelle Eggleston Schwartz, and today we’re joined by Dr. Michelle Rozen. Welcome!
Dr. Rozen: Thank you for having me.
Sarah Gallo: And today we’re discussing change. Since we know that change is constant and really leading and driving that change takes more than just reacting to disruption. So we’re glad to have you with us today. And we’ll dig into that. But first, do you want to briefly introduce yourself?
Dr. Rozen: Oh, wow. Introduce myself. Well, I’m Michelle Rozen. I am very passionate about making changes that actually stick. And becoming the kind of professional and the kind of person that knows how to create sustainable change. And now if we step back from big words in learning and development to real life, to become the kind of person that says that they will do something and actually follows through to become the kind of leader, the kind of team member, the kind of team, the kind of company that says that they will do something and actually follows. To actually makes it happen. I think that’s… and then I try to practice it in my own life as well.
Sarah Gallo: Perfect.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: I love that. I had the opportunity to listen to your keynote at the TICE conference and something you said really stuck with me. “When you learn, you become.”
Dr. Rozen: Yeah.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Can you talk a little bit about that? Just in terms of when we’re adapting to change and, in the workplace, … can you just share a little bit more about that?
Dr. Rozen: It’s funny how sometimes as professionals we have that division, we’re like, “Okay, this is learning; this is life; this is work; this is life.” And let me say, how do we balance? Because we see it as separate. But to me, it’s all the process of becoming where you become the kind of person that has certain skills and those skills are universal to both leadership, business and life. And I feel that when you have those skills, when you know how to keep yourself focused and when you know how to focus on what matters the most and when you know how to set goals and follow through, and when you know how to build and sustain relationships with other people, and other skills, it can’t be separate. You know, you use those things with your spouse and it makes your relationship better and you use them with your kids and it makes that relationship better. And then you go to work and you use it with your team and it works just as well. And so to me, there’s a line between all of that, and that’s that process of becoming where you challenge yourself to have better skills that work with today’s world and work with challenges that you have both as a leader, as an individual, in every single aspect of your life.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Definitely, there’s just so much change in, in work and in life now. And could you kind of talk what you mean by sustainable change? Like how do you lead, like what does it take to lead sustainable change versus reacting to it?
Dr. Rozen: So let’s take the big words of sustainable change and bring them down to everyday life. So sustainable change to me means you said you’re going to create this change, you said you’re going to do this thing. Did you actually make it happen? And to me, it doesn’t matter what the thing is. It can be anything from, “I’m going to drink more water.” Actually follow through to, “We’re going to focus ourselves and prioritize differently as a team.” And actually follow through. To me, it’s the same thing. And so that is that process of becoming that I speak about where, you know, the world is filled with people that say that they will change something and say that they will do something they really want to. Yeah. But based on my research that I shared at the TICE conference, only 6% of people followed through.
Sarah Gallo: Yeah. I feel like that kind of goes into that concept of change resistance, which I know you’ve talked about. Can you kind of dig into that? How does that creep up on teams and what can leaders do to sort of overcome that and help people make it into that 6% club that you’ve talked about?
Dr. Rozen: So, back to the 6% club. So after being in the change industry for many, many years, and typically I come in when companies are going through organizational change, new technology, new leadership, mergers and acquisitions, new ways of doing things, which literally is everyone these days. I said to myself, you know, so many people, so many teams have a goal. They want to be somewhere, but they have a hard time catching up with that gap. They want something and it’s not really happening the way they want it to. And it, the same thing happens to people in their personal lives. And so I said to myself, fine, I’ll do research. And I did research and that’s what I shared at the conference today, where I found out that only 6% of people follow through. So being in the 6% club doesn’t just make you better as a leader. It changes different things in your life. It elevates your entire life. It changes your life.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: And a big part of that change is mindset shifts. Can you kind of give some strategies or tips for leaders on things that they can do to embrace opportunities instead of resist them?
Dr. Rozen: One of the tools that we discussedtoday at the conference here at t and also, um, I wrote about it in my book, the 6% vlub. I teach it in online learning as well, um, is called the 0-10 rule, and the 0-10 rule, I find it incredibly powerful and it’s one of the things that is very characteristic of the 6%, and it’s basically, it comes to, say in the span of your day, you only have hundred thousand things to do. You have so many things to do. And a classical mistake of the 94% is to try to do it all. And it creates this frantic situation where you’re burned out; you’re trying to do it all. And spoiler alert: It’s not humanly impossible. And so the 0-10 rule is about, you know, in the span of your day you have things to do that are a 10. Those are the most important things for that day. And you also have things to do that are a zero, [a] 10 [or a] three. And when people create a to-do list, you know, they knock things off sequentially. I find that this is a problem because then you’re not even getting to your tens and on a team level, I’m finding that a lot of times when teams and leaders have the tool, the zero to 10 rule to say, guys, this is a 10, this is a two. Why are we having so many meetings on something that is a two? When in the meantime, all this 10 is happening and we’re not even there. And so it creates this sense of efficiency, both on a personal level as a leader and also for the team. Where are we putting our time and priority and focus as a team right now? What’s a 10 and what’s a two?
Sarah Gallo: Definitely. And I feel like that can be challenging too when you do have a hundred thousand things to do. Sort of identifying what is a 10 and what’s a two. Do you have tips for that?
Dr. Rozen: So one of the things that I share, [in] the 6% club book and in learning, and I shared it in the conference today too, is that we need to pause. And I call that the power of the pause, and I am myself reminded of that all the time. Whenever I don’t do it, I say to myself, Michelle, you did not use the power of the pause. Yeah, you need to start. And the power of the pause basically means you have to have a space every single day for. Thinking, strategizing, reflecting on what is working and what is not working. Identifying what your tens are. You cannot lead when you are burned out and reactive. And too many times I hear from leaders, yeah, I would totally do all of that, but you have no idea what my day looks like. Well, that basically means to me, regardless of what your work environment is and what leadership wants from you and what, and I know that some work environments are extremely challenging. It still means to me that on your end, you’re not focusing on your tens. And so, you know, we can’t control changes within companies, changes in the industry, changes in the world. We can’t control any of that. But how can we use our time more wisely? Focus on the tens as a team and as a leader so that, you know, we focus on what matters the most. To do that, you have to pause things, strategize, get that clarity, and then leave yourself enough time for recreation working out. You’ve got to take care of yourself, otherwise you can’t be your best self. How can you be your best self if you’re burned out?
Sarah Gallo: No. You can’t pour from that empty cup.
Dr. Rozen: You absolutely cannot.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Like we hear so much in our space, learning and development, that employees just say time and time again, I don’t have time to learn. And it’s that active prioritization. And it’s a large part from the leader’s responsibility to remind their employees to make the time, provide the time like for them to learn. And so yes, prioritization.
Dr. Rozen: So, and to lead by example. To start prioritizing themselves. To clarify, because it, it, when you’re clear with your team, you’re kind to your team. Clarify to the team, what’s a 10? What’s a two? Because otherwise, how are people supposed to know what’s a priority right now if you don’t clarify it as a leader? And so the change starts with the leader. The leader starts using the 0-10 rule and then speaks the same language, trains the team to. Speak the same language. So from a team that is burned out and stressed out, we want a team that is focused on what matters the most.
Sarah Gallo: Before we wrap up, can you share some actionable or applicable on-the -job ready tools or strategies that our listeners can really use to help their team stay motivated and high performing during these times of change?
Dr. Rozen: When it comes to motivation, it’s extremely important, and we talked about it in the conference as well, to train our brain to give other people genuine compliments, not for their shoes or their hair, but for a work that is well done. Because we have a tendency, it’s very easy for the brain to focus on the negative. That’s a natural inclination of the brain, first of all, purposes. You know, if I’m a prehistoric woman, I live in my cave, I got out of my cave this morning. If I need to focus on a flower or a tiger mm-hmm I better focus on the tiger. You know, danger is coming. So the mind is wired to focus on the negative, and in modern life, it actually works against us, whereas in prehistoric life, it helped us survive. Now it backfires. Back at us because all we do all day long is we look at other people and think what they do wrong and how annoying they are and how to correct them. We don’t see ourselves, we see their problem and we communicate it to them. And then we’re like, okay, so why do they, why are they so, you know, bitter and why are they not just trying harder with us? And it’s very frustrating to other people. And people leave jobs, you know, when it comes to protection because they feel unappreciated. And it’s extremely powerful to train your brain to see great things that people are doing. And I gave this talk many times to many leaders, and a lot of times my experience has been that somebody would, you know, talk to me and say, I haven’t given any genuine compliments to my husband or my wife because we take the people that are the closest to us completely for granted and forget to do this very human thing. So I say, if you want to challenge yourself to do that with your team, I say start at home. Start at home and train yourself. Imagine yourself walking around with a big flashlight looking for good things. You saw something, say something. It costs you literally 20 seconds of your time. It’s so easy. It’s just a matter of mindset, and then go out there with your team. Go out there to the world and don’t be fake. You know? If it’s not good, it’s not good, but if it’s good mm-hmm. You’ve got to highlight it and tell them, because then they would be like, oh my gosh, all the people in my life are complaining all the time. Look at this guy or lady, they actually see how amazing I am. My mom was right. I am amazing. Let me try to see what else I can do for them. And so you get this group of people that you know will. Go the extra mile for you and you need that. You can’t do it alone.
Sarah Gallo: Yeah. I feel like that gets at that concept of, we’ve heard it a few times around human-centered leadership, especially now in the age of AI, and those core skills [of] giving feedback and recognition and appreciation are so huge right now.
Dr. Rozen: It is very important. All the soft skills became so much more important, especially as the younger generation is coming into the workforce. And a lot of them really struggled with soft skills and they want leaders that will coach them on how to be successful because technology they know, you know, that’s not the issue. That’s a challenge with the older generation in the workforce. But people skills, soft skills are very lacking. And so it’s extremely important to lead by example when it comes to the soft skills.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: Yeah. It really is so powerful in the workplace, as you said. People want to follow the person who’s positive and pointing out what’s going right when everyone else is pointing out what’s going wrong.
Dr. Rozen: True.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: And so it’s just such a great reminder that we each can be that every day. We have to choose that.
Dr. Rozen: Yes.
Michelle Eggleston Schwartz: And so with that, it’s been great talking to you today. Dr. Rozen. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Dr. Rozen: Thank you. Thank you for having me here.
Sarah Gallo: Perfect. Well, for more insights on this topic, visit the shownotes for this episode on TainingIndustry.com and don’t forget to rate and review us. Until next time. Thanks Dr. Rozen.
Dr. Rozen: Thank you for having me.
